Project Petaling Street Blog

Shortage of healthcare professionals happens in every country. What a sorry fact.

I think we should get Australians, and Malaysians staying in Australia to retire in Malaysia.

The average Australian professional, at retirement, would be worth about AUD 1 million, if you do a simple accounting of all his assets. This however, would not get very far in Australia, especially when you consider that he or she will probably live another 20 years without additional income.

Now, we can sell the idea that if they come to Malaysia to retire, then at current exchange rates, that AUD 1 Million would be worth about MYR 3 Million. With 3 Million clams, a retiree in Malaysia would be able to live very comfortably for the rest of his life, without having to worry about finances. The interest income alone, on time deposits would be sufficient.

Where would be a good place to retire in Malaysia ? I can think of a few places, including Penang, Taiping, Kota Kinabalu, Jalan Alor, or any of numerous other places in beautiful Malaysia.

Australia is so boring. Why would anyone want to go there?

hey freddie i agree
come over to kota kinabalu

admittedly, there is an acute shortage of any health care service professionals.

the fact that the goverment in australia is doing something about it and encouraging those health care professionals to migrate into the country is something that other countries should take a note of.

freddie: not all cities in australia are boring. perth is, but melbourne isn't :) but ur right abt the calculation of the salaries and retirement etc. occupational therapists earn roughly AUD$42 000 per yr, after u minus off tax and living expenses and super annuation (EPF), your not left with every much. If you compare dollar for dollar, the living standard in australia is relatively low in perth. melbourne n sydney of course are entirely different stories

Australia is great if you want to live happily every after in a place where living standards are high and life is more or less predictable. The problem with Australia is that, you can't get too far off the beaten track even if you are totally careless. You can't really starve, but neither can you get fabulously rich and famous.

Malaysia on the other hand, is still very much a cowboy town, but without too many cayotes and rattlesnakes. It is a very exciting place where anything can happen, strange things do happen, and you can actually starve or make it beyond your wildest dreams. Well, maybe not as wild as the Wild-Wild-West, but still very much so the Exciting-Exotic-East.

I mean, I have nothing against law and order and all that, but I think Australia is becoming a nanny state. Look, you can't even bungee jump anymore without getting into trouble. In Malaysia, you can jump off a bridge, with or without a bungee chord and that would be fine with everyone. Or for that matter, when was the last time it was legal to do 100 mph anywhere in Australia? In Malaysia, a speeding licence would only cost 50 bucks (maybe a little more if you happen to drive a red hot Ferarri). And if you are lucky, you may even not have to pay!

This is just my personal opinion, but hey! Given a choice of any city in Australia or KL, I'll settle for KL anytime. The life, the lights, the action, the opportunities, the zip, pizzaz, and vigor. It's all happening and it's all here man!

What the heck can you possibly want to be doing in that sleepy backwater down there?

Hehehe Freddie's calculations are right about retirement, but when I am retired, this is what I want to do.

I want to spend my time with loved ones. I want to take long walks by the river, I want to bask in the beauty of nature. I want to spend my mornings slowly sipping breakfast latte by the alfresco cafe reading my morning papers. I want to invite friends home and enjoy my shrimp salad and rack of lamb on the barbie in the great outdoors.

Malaysia can only offer me char kuay teow :Þ

We do not get coyotes and rattlesnakes. We have dingos, and listen carefully, we have box jellyfish (the most venomous marine creature on earth) and inland taipan (most venomous snake on earth) :Þ

But nothing happens down there !

Why not have breakfast in Hong Kong, go shopping for exotics in Guangzhou, take an overnight pit stop in Singapore, a weekend in Sydney, and back to KL. Then, do it all over again but to somewhere else.

Hey! Lots of people in KL actually do that you know!

Unfortunately, not many Malaysians are well to do.

They look to Australia as an option for a better quality of life, as well as a more equal society.

Australia is boring only for those who fail to see the big picture.

Let me give you a very simple example.

Realistically speaking, more often than not, you will be forced to save up for your children's education. For two children, it can cost you over half-a-million Malaysian ringgit to educate them. And that's only if they take up ordinary Bachelor degrees.

Now, unless you are really rich, you can't afford to splash on holidays. No, you will be spending the bulk of your time and energy saving up for your children's future.

On the flipside, if you settle in Australia, the government gives you financial assistance for education. You struggle much less.

This is what I call quality of life.

Unless, of course, you are the selfish type who doesn't want to have children. For you, then Australia is probably boring. ;)

From a narrow perspective, Australia looks like a very good place, and it does have its genuine attractions. The overall quality of life there is indeed better than Malaysia, and the nation has indeed tried to live up to its decree to create an egalitarian society for all and sundry.

Many people, including myself, have found that to be true, firsthand.

But look at it from a broader prespective. Is getting short term gains for one's self (including family, etc.) all there is to one's purpose? What about doing something for our countrymen? What about nation building? What about contributing to one's own culture, community, creed, and canton?

What about having pride in being that to which you were born? What about making excellence of that which we inherit? Do we simply throw all that out of the window simply because some of our neighbours offer apparently greener pastures?

Why not make a decent go at it, and make it good as a Malaysian, in Malaysia, for ourselves and Malaysians of generations yet unborn?

My apologies to anyone who may take offence to this, but I think that running off to Australia (or any other place) simply demonstrates a lack of moral fibre, selfishness, and hypocrisy that is second to none.

Looking to Australia for holidays, handouts, and half-a-million savings on education? Good Lord! Is that what you call setting a good example?

How can such people have to gall to call themselves Malaysian? Bloggers or otherwise.

Well, I don't wish to argue too much with you. But allow me to explain something.

My family is involved in the agricultural-pharmaceutical business. We import products from countries such as Australia, New Zealand to supply to Malaysian government agencies such as PORIM, FELDA and the like.

If you are talking about patriotism, then we are patriots. We have been involved heavily in the farming and livestock sector for 20 years.

We once took all the trouble to source out microscopes from Switzerland for a government laboratory. These were the latest generation and we lobbied hard to get it for the best price possible.

Unfortunately, the law says that this laboratory can only order microscopes from a Bumiputera company. In the end, the laboratory acquired microscopes from Thailand which were two generations behind ours and priced much higher.

The tragedy is this. We have many Malay customers who would rather order from us than thehalf-baked Bumiputera companies that can't service their needs. But according to the law, they CANNOT order from us. And this is done at the expense of the taxpayers.

This is just a minor example what we face everyday. I don't think it's possible for you to completely understand the heartache and tears that people like us go through.

It is like being seated at a dining table. The father tells the son with curly hair: "Here, have fried chicken, because I like you!"

And the father goes on to tell the son with straight hair: "I don't like you, so you cannot have fried chicken."

There is a message here. No matter how smart or talented or accomplished you are, you can never erase your straight hair, and because of that, your patriarch rejects you.

So, please refrain from using words like 'lack of moral fibre' and 'hypocricy'. Because, while you joke about breakfast in Hong Kong, shopping in in Guangzhou and what-not, there are those of us who are suffering tremendous hardship and persecution.

You mentioned nation building, but allow me to ask you, how much of it have you participated in?

Have you visited the interiors of the northern states? Have you even seen the inside of a cattle farm? Do you know how electric fencing works?

This nation was built upon the foundations of agriculture and livestock, which still plays an important part in the Malaysian economy.

Many Chinese and Indians contributed to nation building for decades, and my family is but one of them.

For those of us who have given blood and sweat, is it too much to ask for equal treatment so that we may realize our full potential and efficiency? Is it too much to ask for equality in the eyes of the law?

Now, I don't expect you to understand how much all this means to us. You have never gone through what many of us prospectors went through, so how can you pass judgement on us?

After being scarred from fighting so many unnecessary battles with a government that refuses to treat us fairly, it is natural for us to consider emigration.

My apologies to you if you take offence, but it seems to me that you have lived a city life of silver spoon priviledge.

Now, there is nothing wrong with being blessed, but I think it's unfair for you to condemn those of us who have our reasons for going abroad.

Freddie: Patriotism is one thing, but using that as a reason to limit horizons and opportunity is in itself wrong.

Bloggers, just like anyone else, and probably a bit more due to our love for free speech, believe in self-determinism.

Take that away, and what else do you have?

I have to agree. If you are a Malaysian by birth, this is something you cannot erase, and it's a good thing.

Let's consider Tash Aw. He is based abroad, but his success has brought much glory and attention to Malaysia. Would you call him unpatriotic for being based in London rather than KL?

I think that if he had not taken the step to move to London, he would not have had the opportunity to make Malaysia proud. =)

This will take you many years to understand and accept, as it has taken me thus so. Let me tell you a story.....

Once upon a time, there was a farmer. He had two sons. The elder son was his own and had curly hair. The younger son was adopted and had straight hair.

In their growing years, the adopted son had always been the one who was outstanding. He was a very good student, school prefect, won all the medals, and was the teacher's pet. In his spare time, he helped the father build up his cattle farm and even constructed an electric fence. He was, but not even a fully grown man yet. All the neighbours nodded in approval and appreciation of this good son of the farmer.

The elder son however, was not as capable as his younger brother. He was a very amicable chap, very friendly, courteous, and very respectful of his father and adopted brother. But it was quite clear that he could never stand up on his own, next to his adopted sibling. He would in fact, need a lot of help if he were to carry on, on his own.

The father was growing old and so one fine day, he had to make a decision about what to do with the farm. So he got both his sons together and spoke to them. He told his elder son :

"Elder son, I am not proud at all to do this, but I leave the farm to you. I only hope you can follow your younger brother's example and learn to run the farm yourself"

The adopted son was totally shocked to hear this. After all, he helped the father build up the farm more than his elder brother. The father then told the adopted son :

"Younger son, I know you will think this is totally unfair, but I also know that you can easily take care of yourself and build your own farm, and be more successful than I or your brother can ever be. You do not need this farm, but your brother does. Can you try to understand and accept that?"

The adopted son, very disappointed though he initially was, was never one to cry over spilt milk. So he went away to seek his fortune. He travelled far and wide. He saw and learnt many wonderful things. He traded with people from strange and faraway lands. He built his fortune in his own right, without any help, as he knew he could. Along the way, and after a number of years, he then understood why his adopted father had to do what he had to do.

So today, the adopted son looks back upon that faithful day when his father made his decision. He looks at the state of the farm after his brother took over, which is more or less in a reasonably good state. He looks at himself and assesses his own achievements, and then he quietly smiles and tells himself :

"It's ok. This is the better way"

And the two brothers continue to live happily in peace and harmony

Aiz,

There is far far far more at stake here than fairness in its literal sense. The world is never so simple or so nicely cut and dried.

The NEP of 30 years ago, and the special previleges of the Sultans, were, and still are, a NECESSITY. This is not just about economics. It is far more than that. This is about maintaining the stability of a social fabric which can inherently be unstable. It is a very very asymmetric situation which requires asymmetric solutions.

In retrospect, I have to admit that the economic and social success of Malaysia is a miracle that should not have happened.

You may find it very strange for a Malaysian Chinese to say this, but for the foreseeable future, the special privileges of the Malays MUST NOT BE removed, even if it is voluntarily surrendered.

Interesting story, but unfortunately, it's a fictional ideal that bears little relation to the real world.

In many of the northern states, every year, you will find poor Malay farmers working very hard to make a living. They are humble people who really need help.

Unfortunately, from experience, I can tell you that the bulk of the NEP subsidies and grants fall into the hands of cronies who have already grown fat.

This is what is most frustrating for us in the pharmaceutical-agricultural industry. ;)

Remember the government lab that I told you about? As in turns out, we later discovered that the company that the lab ordered microscopes from was owned by the bigwig running the lab.

Can you say conflict of interest? Yes, you can.

Your ideal is about taking from the rich and giving to the poor? Sure, that sounds nice.

So, why is the bigwig finding it so easy to twist the law to his favor, while his poorer cousin in Kedah is having one heck of a time getting access to the same resources?

The NEP is necessary in the Malaysian context.

However, the issue here is not the NEP. The issue here is those who emigrate abroad because they do not agree with the NEP.

Freddie, I have a direct question for you: Would you consider these individuals unpatriotic?

The story I told, is figurative, but very very real, as many have realized.

The issue about microscopes that you talk about, I can believe is also very very real. A big time example of something along a similar vein and very current, would be the AP issue.

I shall now say that all this is, in a broader sense, perfectly ok. Sounds strange?

I say so because first and foremost, it is not a threat to the social fabric of Malaysia. Change the players a little and things can be very very different.

Secondly, the economics work out such that even though there is significant wastage, the multiplier effect of downline transactions more than compensate for any perceived unfair allocation of resources. That is the reason for the Malaysian economic miracle. An efficient nexus for the resolving the conflict between economic inefficiency and the monetary multiplier effect was factored in such that there is a net economic gain of healthy proportions.

John,

I shall try to make my position clear, as I believe I have not quite done so.

1. By definition, anyone who emmigrates is not patriotic. Any move towards giving up citizenship cannot possibly be patriotic.

2. If one wants to be unpatriotic, or cannot feel patriotic, it should be perfectly ok provided one declares it, ie. be upfront and be honest.

3. If you do not agree with the NEP or don't like Malaysian food, it should be perfectly ok to be be unpatriotic and move on. If something does not suit you, why pretend?

4. If you are unpatriotic and declare it, then some people will fault you for being selfish. Other people will say you are being smart.

5. If you are unpatriotic, and tell everyone otherwise, then that sucks.

6. If you want to go to Australia just because you think you can get a lot of freebies, then that really really sucks! It all has to come from the honest Australian tax-payers' pocket.

7. If you honestly believe in your heart that you can live like an Australian, feel like an Australian, and do the things Australians do and uphold Australian values, and can seriously no longer have any love left in your heart for Malaysia, then do the obvious, but do it right and clean (ie. pay your outstanding taxes, make necessary declarations, etc.)

Does that help?

First of all, your explanations are incorrect.

It is a fact that every country soon reaches what is known as a steady state, where further economic growth is impossible without innovation.

It is foolhardy to make excuses for inefficiency and wastage of resources. This is a 'tidak apa' attitude that is very damaging.

Essentially, you are making the case that we SHOULD NOT give free rein to the most talented entreprenuers and innovators.

Let me tell you why we should.

The social fabric of Malaysia is built upon the NEP. When Malaysia reaches a steady state and the NEP can no longer be sustained, we will be back at square one with ethnic divisions.

But this is not the issue here.

The issue is that entreprenuers and innovators require a dynamic market free from rent-seekers. In a rent-seeking economy, would you call these entreprenuers and innovators unpatriotic if they decide to move abroad to seek a dynamic market?

I pose the question directly at you again, Freddie. I'm being as specific as I can.

Would you call such people unpatriotic and lacking a moral fibre?

Freddie,

Then, is it safe to say that entreprenuers and innovators who desire a market free from rent-seeking, are by their very nature, unpatriotic to Malaysia?

Perhaps it is.

John,

The NEP is an innovation. That is why it worked.

What is damaging economically, can be a political necessity.

The NEP did not say anything about not being able to go outside the country. Yes, I am saying that some restrictions to entreprenuers was necessary.

Unless you are an economist, you can't credibly tell me that the NEP cannot be sustained. If you can find me a credible source, I will believe you. Even if so, we still have to maintain it.

Lots of Malaysians make a lot of money from overseas markets. Making money from overseas markets have nothing to do with being patriotic.

By the way, I never mentioned anything about being patriotic or unpatriotic until you raised the issue.

I was making noise about people who run off to Australia simply because they think they can get freebies down under. This is a post about migrating to Australia, right?

Okay, let's try to simplify this.

Suppose you have a budding Malaysian entreprenuer who loves Malaysian life to bits. Unfortunately, due to rent-seeking, he is unable to achieve his dreams.

So, he acquires a PR in Australia and goes there to chase his dreams. He is successful, but still maintains close ties to Malaysia.

Is he unpatriotic to Malaysia?

This is my personal opinion.

A Malaysian who has migrated legally to Australia has, by definition, given up on Malaysia, and he or she has declared it. So being patriotic to Malaysia is thus irrelevant. Same as saying, "I have given up on my gf, so why ask me if I still love her?"

The issue really is, that migrant is not being patriotic to his adopted country, Australia. Why still have only a PR? Why not get full Australian citizenship? After all, Australia is the place of his success. Why not fully ratify his allegiance to Australia? Same as saying, "I am now your new gf, you do unto me as you wish, why do you still hold on to your old gf's photos?"

Maintaining close ties to anybody anywhere, has nothing to do with being patriotic or not-patriotic. That is simply being sensible.

Even though I major in Economics and Political Science, I do not need to show you graphs to explain why the NEP cannot be sustained.

All we need is common sense.

Rent-seeking creates a moral hazard. Let me give you an example. A subsidy is given to help a producer. But because a subsidy is given, the producer has no incentive to improve.

Go read up on moral hazards. You will find all the credible sources you need, on the Internet or in print.

To what extent is the NEP an innovation, Freddie? Maybe you are referring to the fact that Malaysia is the only democratic country in the world with institutionalized racism.

Common sense tells me that we should both go get some sleep.

Well, I think this discussion has drifted a little off-course. Let's get back to the main point.

I will admit that it does no service to either Malaysia or Australia when you decide to hop over to Australia just to get a free ride. That shouldn't be the way. If one must go, then do it with the right reasons.

As for the NEP, let us agree to disagree. My personal view is that it is racial discrimination, and it is no longer moral. All men are equal under God, and hence, should be equal under the law.

On a sidenote, I'm not sure if you have seen this, but this is interesting reading: http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=10158

Let me just end by saying that while our conversation has gotten pretty heated, it was purely an intellectual one, and I bear you no ill will, Freddie.

You are entitled to your views, and that's the freedom of PPS. It's wonderful that we can come together to discuss something like this. =)

Thank you for such an immersive discussion. =)

John,

An excellent discourse which I thoroughly enjoyed. Else I would not be up at such absurd hours of the morning responding to you.

I respect, and do understand your viewpoint, and I too, hope that we will take any bitter words spoken as only incidental to the discussion.

We have much of common interest to exchange views on, and I do hope that we will be able to engage is similarly lively and exhilarating debate and discourse.

I shall have much to say, and I thank you and all the rest for your openness to differing ideas and opinions.

Errr.... Are there any lawyers around here ?

Yes, I feel the same way.

The fact that we got so heated only goes to show that we both have a genuine concern and emotional investment in our country. :)

A part of me says, "This discussion has ended. Mind your own business".

But the most of me wants to say something.

I'm a patient of Neurofibromatosis. For every brain surgery, the risk is more than 50%. For every spine surgery I go through, the risk of getting paralysed is greater than 90%.

So if I emigrate to America for better medical resources, I will be considered unpatriotic?

Those who choose to stay put but contribute nothing to Malaysia, is patriotic? My God!

In Yvonne's case, health is paramount, no questions asked :)

Here is another question:

You live and work in Malaysia with your spouse but you are an Australian PR (which will soon expire). You are expecting your first baby. Will you purposely go to Australia to give birth just so that your child will in future have free (or near-free) access to Australian universities in future?

Do you think that qualify you as a freeloader leeching on another country's limited resources?

John,

As a prelude to a further discussion on a related topic, I would want to say that in the 21st century, the definition of "my country" becomes blurred and debatable. More on that later

Yvonne,

This is a public discussion, and I think it should be open as long as anyone wants to discuss it, and it certainly IS your business.

I shall assume you directed your question to me, and so I shall offer my opinion.

If you emigrate to America just for medical resource, then yes, you will be considered unpatriotic. However, you can also argue that given a significant medical condition, you cannot afford to be patriotic. That is when it starts getting fuzzy.

But if you go there as a paying patient, then you are just another paying customer of overseas medical services. The question of patriotism has nothing to do with this.

If you knowingly do not declare your condition and get yourself into the American health-care system for the intentional purpose to get subsidized treatment, then that is no better than lying to your insurance company that you do not have any medical conditions, even though you actually do. In the eyes of many people, that can be seen as intention to defraud.

Let's be clear about this. I think it's ok to be unpatriotic if you go ahead and declare it. At least you are being honest. Nobody can force you to love anything, anyone, or any country.

The real and bigger issue is whether you intend to put yourself in a position where taxpayers in the country of your adoption end up paying for something they did not bargain for. If they say it is ok (and I'm not sure if any of them do), then that should be perfectly alright.

If you are able bodied and stay put in Malaysia and don't contribute anything, then you are of no use to yourself, your family, or your country, and the question of patriotism becomes totally irrelevant.

But you do have a significant medical condition, and there are convoluted and difficult questions of impairment to life and limb. So, in this case, perhaps you would be the best person to answer your own question.

Tinkerbell,

There are at least two perspectives to this : Yvonne's own position, and the position of third parties examining the circumstances. These could easily be contradicting.

Tinkerbell,

Australia is a very simple and generous country. She assumes that people would act in good faith and is often, magnanimous beyond reason.

Subsidized education, health care, social security, etc., is generously offered on the basis that those who are the recipients, would act in good faith and do what is morally right and decent.

As an Australian PR, you are expected to live the Australian way of life, support Australian values, assimilate into Australian society, bring up your children in Australia, and contribute to her economic well-being by working there and paying Australian taxes. And for doing that, you get all the benefits of Australian residency which, by any measure, is second to none

It is such a simple, uncomplicated, and generous offer.

I feel that it is so unfortunate that many so-called PR's, Asians in particular, find loopholes in this offer of good faith, and blatantly abuse such graciousness extended.

Making use of loopholes is not always a question of ethics. For instance, before 1997 communist takeover of HK, parents worry about the future of their kids, therefore they migrate. But in their adopted country they are unable to find work. So they have no choice but to find work back in HK, leaving the wife and kids behind to be educated in Australian schools. They end up paying tax to HK but at the same time taking full advantage of the Australian social welfare system and education resources.

Aside from that, I think it is inherent within the human instinct for survival to first look out for his own.

That is why people would make use of (legal) loopholes in any societal system to advance their own interest.

For instance, who wouldn't make use of legal tax loopholes to minimise tax?

Your scenario is a little different from what I was referring to. Many (not all) of those parents from HK migrated with the intention to live and find work in Australia. They had all the intention to stay there for good, but because of circumstances, labour market, etc., could not quite get it going. So, to find work back in HK would be entirely reasonable.

Bear in mind too, that Australia expects PRs working overseas to pay taxes to Australia as well, the amount being the difference between taz paid in the country where they work, and what they would have paid if they worked in Australia.

The children of these HK migrants can also be said to be in very different circumstances from the previous example you brought up. These HK kids would presumably, end up being Aussies, so any initial investment by the country in them, through education, etc., will bear a return in the future.

If the intended purpose of the parent was to get the kid educated for almost free, and then get him or her out, that would be a totally different story.

You are correct in saying that it is human instinct to look out for his own, to exploit legal and immigration loopholed. But that does not make it right to do so.

We have to remember, that Australia is not some impersonal entity or vast land represented by a flag. Australia (or America or Europe or etc) is a group of people, and it is these people who are unselfishly extending their welcome to foreigners and others who are not as fortunate as they are.

It is a sincere and very lop-sided offer of generousity that greatly favours the recipient. At the very least, one should not abuse such generosity.

There is a conflict of interest in the altruistic desire to repay a country for all it has given you and your kids, and the responsiblity and prudence of seeking the best future prospects for yourself and your kids.
It is often not possible to kill 2 birds with the one stone. In such cases, I think one's duty is towards the future generation of one's own kids.

Huh? Are you saying it is ok for foreigners to leech on the Australian social security and education system?

I believe elsewhere you said you work in Australia, so the cost of all this will be passed on to you in the form of higher health insurance, lower health coverage, higher education costs for your children, etc.

You are willing to accept this?

In political science, we make the distinction between a nation and a state.

While a state is government-run entity with clearly defined borders and laws, a nation is a group of people with a shared cultural and historial identity.

So, if you examine it closely, it is your children that constitute the building blocks of a nation. Your children are more important than anything else.

I would recommend that you read my latest post: "A very frightened Malaysian abroad".

You might be able to relate.

John, There are two issues here. One is about the reservations that a person may have about his country of origin. The other is about taking advantage of the hospitality of another nation willing to extend a helping hand.

"Frightened Malaysian" is about issues with the former.

I was referring to issues relating to the latter

Well, it's not a free cake, unless you enter Australia under refugee status.

As a migrant, you may qualify and enter by skill, by investment or by starting a business enterprise.

In any case, you will have to pay your dues before you can gain a PR.

There is no such thing as taking advantage. If you pay your dues, then you are entitled to these priviledges.

Freddie, for many years I have been paying taxes in Australia and my husband created many new jobs for Australians. We like to see our hard-earned tax money go to worthy causes.

So we do not think rich Malaysian kids should come here as PR, avoid paying school and university fees, graduate and then leave to work for Daddy's company back home in Malaysia.

This is because our money is helping an unworthy cause. In extreme humanitarian cases however, that would be an entirely different matter.

But putting myself in the Daddy's shoes, I would most definitely want my son to study in Australia rather than Malaysia. When he graduates, I would let him pick where he prefers to work. But if I can see that he would do much better in my company and he is happy to live in Malaysia, then I would encourage him to return.

So you see, in both cases, I am still looking out for myself and my own progeny. Whichever way you look at it, it is intrinsic human instinct for survival.

Well said, well said.

I was referring to Tinkerbell's post at 12:39

"You live and work in Malaysia with your spouse but you are an Australian PR (which will soon expire). You are expecting your first baby. Will you purposely go to Australia to give birth just so that your child will in future have free (or near-free) access to Australian universities in future?

Do you think that qualify you as a freeloader leeching on another country's limited resources?"

Tinkerbell,

If Daddy wants his son or daughter to get a good education in Australia, then he should pay the full prescribed fees. Australians also pay these fees, a lesser amount directly, and the bulk through taxes.

After the kid finishes college, the fair exchange would have been completed. Country earns tuition fees, kid gets academic qualifications. What he or she does later on, is a separate matter altogether.

Yes, this is about looking after one's progeny, but it can be done in an upright, fair, and decent manner. Looking after one's self and one's family, can be fully compatible with not abusing the generosity of others.

It isn't freeloading. Freeloading is getting something in return for nothing.

An Australian PR is not something that is given for nothing. As I mentioned earlier, unless you are a refugee, you have to work at fulfilling many conditions before you are granted a PR.

In return for dutifully fulfulling these conditions, your children are given near-free education.

Freddie,
Of course, you are filthy rich with a perpetual silver spoon in your mouth, but let's pretend you are only comfortable, ok? Say you are an Australian PR because you applied and you had enough points, and you worked for a few years in Australia.

Now, there is absolutely no question that your kids would be far better off if they were schooled in Australia rather than Malaysia.

As a PR, you do not have to send them to a private high school (they cost approx AUD$20,000 a year for each kid). At university, as PR they only need to pay a minimal few thoussand a year.

There is no way the average comfortable Malaysian parent can afford this kind of money without a LOT of pain and sacrifice. For instance, you may not even afford the air tickets to see your children for YEARS.

Now, are you saying that you would still INSIST on paying full fees even though as a PR you do not have to?

Ok, that was scene 1. Here's scene 2. Now let's put that silver spoon right back where it belongs. You are filthy rich once more (phew, you say). Are you going to insist on paying much more than you need to pay as a PR?

Remember, you are filthy rich, so you earn millions a year. Are you going to instruct your accountant that he has to make sure that no legal tax loophole is ever going to be taken advantage of? Because taking advantage of (legal) tax loopholes for personal gain is exactly the same as taking advantage of all that Australia can offer you as a PR be it in education, health or otherwise.

To be fair, when you put your child in Australia, you still spend money on his boarding and living costs. This is an injection into the Australian economy.

However, in the short run, the Australian government is losing out, because they are taking on the burden of educating your child. It certainly isn't cheap.

In the long run, though, the child may decide to settle in Australia after graduation. This benefits the country.

Tinkerbell,

Firstly, I am not filthy rich and I do not have a silver spoon in my mouth, ok? The only thing I have in my mouth which is not naturally there are dental filings.

When I said pay full fare, I was referring to non-residents. If you have been working in Australia for a few years, and paying taxes, then by definition, you will already be fulfilling your end of the bargain and should rightly have access to subsidized education for your children.

If I were a rich PR, Of course I would be really dumb to pay any more than necessary. Actually, this is a moot point because provided you are a legitimate PR, you have the right to subsidized education for your children.

There quite a number of Australian PR's who don't really live in Australia, have no official Australian income, do not pay taxes, have income elsewhere which they do not reveal as they should, have no intention of being part of the Australian scene, and skunk the Australian government by getting an almost free education for their children. These people I think, should take a good look at themselves in the mirror and reexamine their values.

Hello people..

As I read this discussion I am saddened by the fact that the idea of migration is suddenly an issue of Patriotism. Freddy you are an amazingly patriotic guy, and for that I salute you. You must have never travelled outside the country, gone to a government school, achieve really great marks, gone to a local university graduate and working in the public sector, come back home to a Malaysian built and designed house, eat proper malaysian food, neither from chinese, india or western origin, am I right? If otherwise, I don't see how u can make such a distinction as emmigrating as unpatriotic. Most people would say that only by going overseas can one bring back something to create a better country an act of patriotism in itself.

In this era of gloabalisation, can you really call anything you have as really of malay origin? Back to the topic, Migrating I would say, would be the first step, taken to improve oneself. Most of us, Malaysians, if given the chance, would go overseas as soon as possible for two very basic reasons, education and experiencce. If needed, stay longer to pursue greater heights, learn new innovations and make more contacts and that would inevitably lead to what you would call migration. Even us chinese, are considered migrants to Malaysia no? your great grandfather came over to Malaysia for work, your grandfather have built up what he had, your father creates a new life for you and now here you are, in Malaysia. Would it be fair now, if all you do is sit on your flat ass and reap the profits? As a patriotic Malaysian, wouldn't you feel the need to do better and contribute more than what ur predecessors did? Wouldn't you want to go out and extend the influence of Malaysia? For that, won't you have to go overseas and make friends, business associates and partners as well as contacts? And when you do so, won't you have to spend an extended amount of time overseas to establish Malaysia's roots there and thus migrate temporarily?

For one thing, I am very sad by your accusation of unpatriotism since you yourself are doing nothing to advance the country but wait to be served. When people like me, John Ling, Tinkerbell and even Yonne Foong, are doing their best to make Malaysia known to the world, bring in overseas business and train up the next generation of Malaysians, you dare call us unpatriotic as we live elsewhere? It may be true tht we pay tax overseas, but compared to the amount of tax you are paying in Malaysia, our business profits, overseas contacts and even overseas sales, make up a larger portion of contribution.

Let us stray away from the area of money for a while. Let us say for example, if every Malaysians do not immigrate, where would that leave us? Malaysia would maybe be of similar standard to before, we may still live everyday, day in day out eating our char kuey teow (which isn't malaysian), enjoying our daily walk in the park and watching some movie on TV perhaps. But, when you look at our industrial advancement, We would have to work at least another 24 hours more to produce the same amount of stuff we are producing now, Proton would be closed because they do not have technological advancement to sustain themselves, we would have effectively no research into palm oil or medical fields and all this because no one went abroad to bring in new technologies, no one spent enough time overseas to determine what would be useful to advance Malaysia, no one would have learnt new things to invent new processes for Malaysia.

Now, let us consider the world view on this, Without Malaysians going overseas to set up business and start their families, Malaysia would most probably be another country on the map, just for leisure and nothing else, not worth noting at all. No business person would come to Malaysia, because no one told them about it, they have also not seen any business in their country that was started by a Malaysian, everyone would look at south east asia and say "Here's Singapore, a place that you can do business in, Here's Indonesia, not really good to do business because of political issues, here's thailand, again, too much social unrest. Now this place here right above Singapore... Anyone know what that is?" and someone would most probably say "Yeah, that place is good for a holiday sir, nice beaches, friendly people ..." That is what would happen friends, just because there is nobody who would want to be termed unpatriotic by your standards Freddie.

When you say that we "skunk the Australian Government by getting an almost free education", isn't that by your view patriotism? Didn't we just pull Australia back temporarily, give them a big whack on the head and give Malaysia the advantage of not paying more money to educate our children? Isn't that patriotism by your standard? It is true that we are taking advantage of the loophole in the system here, but in some ways, we are paying a price for it. The Australian Government has already seen through this and have created a method of taxing even tourists. Through the Governmental Sales Tax (GST) even kids who are less than a year old pay tax. International students pay tax, PR who don't pay income tax, pay GST. And what is more, GST is on everything, every small objects, from sweets to cars, from petrol to even furniture.

Patriotism isn't something you can measure by saying "I lived here for 80 years, have never taken up citizenship elsewhere, set up my life, business and society here and died here". When asked what have been contributed by yourself to the country, all you can answer is "I lived here what!". If by Living and not Contributing you call that patriotism than consider me unpatriotic. But, when I am old, living maybe elsewhere, when I am asked what have I contributed to Malaysia, I want to say "I have contributed to the social, economical, technological and influential growth of Malaysia through .... ", not a one sentence, ten word answer that incapsulate nothing. You can call me whatever you want, but at least, I have a future, I have a plan, I have a vision for Malaysia and I am willing to get my hands dirty to see it become a reality.

Sh@dow,

Wrong on all counts. I am about as chinko as it gets. I have a pair of huge red lanterns hanging outside my door, including a 'Chi-Pat-Kai'. I recently bought two statues of 'Ngau-Tau' and 'Mah-Meen' from a quaint shop in China which claims that it is hundreds of years old and absolutely authentic. Hell if I know if that is true, but the wife and kids don't seem to think too much about it. So it is in the study, and they are staring at me even as I write this. They actually look very fierce and horrible.

I have been PR in Australia and Singapore, and over the years, worn out a lot of shoes in the US and Europe.

Seeing the world in its stark reality, was actually the best eye-opener. Over the years, I got mugged in New-York, punched up in London, spat upon Tokyo, insulted in Riyadh, cheated in Amsterdam, and taken for one helluva ride in Los Angeles. The only place that did not do anything nasty to me was Australia. I simply got bored there. In Malaysia, I simply made money.

Nowadays, I am mostly running around Asia. Now, that is another eye opener. If I have to rate overall quality of life of real and ordinary people in Asia, I would rate it as follows :-

Melbourne 200
Sydney 180
Singapore 125
Hong Kong 120
Kuala Lumpur 100
Bangkok 70
Jakarta 50
Manila 50
Beijing 40
Hanoi 30
Columbo 35
Karachi 35
Mumbai 35
Dakka 20

To cut a long story short, I have been around. And I will tell you the two and a half most important conclusions I come to

1. Malaysia, despite all its attendant "racial" issues, is actually the best place to be.

2. Just open your eyes, and you will realize that Malaysia is an incredible platform to do wonderful things. But you have to think outside the box.

2 1/2. One day, when I get tired of gallavanting, I will go to Australia to wind down. When I get bored after a few weeks, I will go back to KL and see what other interesting piece of shit turned up (read that as opportunity).

Bottom line is this : Some people see a strong wind as a force that damages property. Some people see it as a pollution free source of energy.

When you look at Malaysia, what do you see?

Sh@dow's views are harsh and blunt, no doubt, but from a nation-building point-of-view, he has some valid opinions.

Freddie, I don't mean to question the veracity of your experiences, but there are quite a few inconsistencies in what you have just shared.

However, I'm not trying to rain down on anyone's parade. Just a gentle reminder to stick to credible arguments from here on out. =)

John, If you wish to be credible, you will not say my arguments are not credible without pointing out specifics.

You are beginning to sound exactly like those whom you comdemn.

Many Malaysian officials like to say things like "There are a undesireable elements within certain groups who are doing damage to our society through their irresponsible comments"

What elements? Which groups? What kind of damage, Which comments?

If you say I have been inconsistent, then point it out directly. If you say I have offered incredible arguments, then state them.

Don't be like those pompous Malaysian officials who like to hide behind the curtain of ambiguity. Sh@dow, blunt as he may be, was at least honest and specific. The only retort I had for him was that he was simply wrong.

Or perhaps, you find it difficult to understand how anyone could find something endearing in that which you find so obviously distasteful and logically, morally, and ethically impossible to reconcile?

Perhaps, there is something you don't see?

Anyways, let me offer my two cents worth.

Essentially, if you are to study political science, there are two kinds of patriotism.

The first is official patriotism (celebrate national day, fly the flag, sing the anthem, hold a country's passport) and the second is personal patriotism (making yourself poor so that your country may be rich, fighting to defend your country from attack, actively lobbying for the improvement of the standard of education)

The interesting thing is that official patriotism can be readily identified, while personal patriotism is much harder.

Let me give you an example. Prior to America's entry into the First World War, there already were American servicemen fighting in the European theater.

By doing so, these servicemen had deserted their units and had committed treason against the United States. They risked execution, because they were now using the skills that they had learned from the American military to fight a war that their country had not yet declared.

However, these people claimed that by forsaking official patriotism, they were actually defending the virtues and ideals of the founding fathers of the United States. The ugliness of fascism must be defeated.

The point that I want to make clear is that we often confuse official patriotism with personal patriotism. For example, there were recent suggestions that Malaysian cinemas should have the national anthem sung before each screening.

Let me narrow things down to two examples.

Let's just say you have a person living in Malaysia only because of opportunity and money. He has never actively lobbied for better quality of life for his fellow Malaysians, nor has he ever actively sacrificed to push his country forward.

On the other hand of the spectrum, you have someone who has gone abroad and can never come back because he is a staunch critic of the NEP. He truly believes that it is damaging and wrong. If he comes back, he would be forced to muzzle himself. He has studied the founding history of Malaysia and he truly believes that he should be patriotic to the ideals of 1957, rather than the policies of post-1969. Therefore, if he resides and works abroad, he can fight for a change. Such an example would be political scientist Farish Noor.

So, regarding this issue of patriotism, let's look at it at its truest sense. Everyone living in Malaysia are official patriots to some extent, but very few of them are personal patriots who strive for an ideal.

Freddie, I don't want to get into a street fight with you. Let's keep this intellectual. Because, if I were to point out your inconsistencies, it would greatly embarass you.

So, please, let's not go there.

Freddie, my ideal has little to do with ethics, logic or morals. I know you enjoy metaphors, so let me offer you one.

Let's imagine that you love a person so dearly. But you observe this person going on the wrong path. You would be doing this person an injustice if you say nothing. So, for the sake of love, you do your best to steer him towards the right path, even though he might misunderstand and reprimand you.

This is how I love my country.

This is why I take the time to visit colleges and educational centres to talk to youngsters to encourage a more liberal atmosphere. This is why I make appearances to talk about censorship, revisionism and 1969, even though it's mildly dangerous for me to do so. This is why I went eyeball-to-eyeball with a heckler whom I later learned was probably Special Branch.

If I was a selfish writer, I would just concentrate my efforts abroad. Why should I fight for something that so many of my fellow Malaysians do not even believe in?

But as I said before, I would rather made the mistake of seeing the glass as half-empty rather than half-full. At least, by seeing the glass as half-empty, it gives us the fire to push for better things.

I would rather not talk about finding something endearing in Malaysia until I have done my small bit to make Malaysia endearing to all.

Malaysia's GDP per capita is $4,900, which puts us just below countries like Russia, Lebanon and Libya. Compare this with Australia at $34,600, or even Singapore at $26,500.

I hope you will understand why I cannot accept the glass as half-full. We need greater equality and efficiency. To accept the glass as half-full is to be content and complacent.

A glass half-full is good because it is not empty
A glass half-full is good because there is some water to drink from
A glass half-full is good because it is filling up and will be full soon

A glass half-empty is good because there is still water to drink
A glass half-empty is good because somebody will pay for more water
A glass half-empty is good because it means the water is drinkable

A glass half-full is bad because it is not full
A glass half-full is bad because there may not be enough to drink
A glass half-full is bad because somebody skunked the other half

A glass half-empty is bad because nobody is filling it up, the supply is gone
A glass half-empty is bad because something must be wrong with it
A glass half-empty is bad because the rest will be thrown away and wasted

Is the figurative Malaysian glass, empty, half-empty, half-full, or full ?
Whatever you see in the figurative Malaysian glass, do you think it is good, bad, neither, or what?

What do you see ?

Paradoxically, that last question is actually quite moot and rhetorical, because the reality of Malaysia, is for all practical intents and purposes, exactly what you see it as.

John,

As you too, have an intellectual streak and obviously can appreciate metaphors, I shall indulge and deviate a little with another metaphor. One that, if you can understand, will help you understand why I say the attributes of Malaysia is essentially relative and based largely on what you see or perceive :-

"To be weak, is to be strong.
To be strong is to be weak"

Outward and superficially, one would ask, "How can something that is strong, be weak? Or vice-versa? What possible real life examples are there?"

Consider a mother and her baby. Now think carefully. Who is strong, and who is weak? Who is the boss and who is the servant? Who calls the shots? Who determines what happens? Who is helpless and who determine things?

Again, I ask you the same question. What do you see?

There are congruents in the case of Malaysia :-

"To be given, is to have taken away.
To have taken away, is to be given"

"To be starved, is to be fed.
To be fed, is to be starved"

"Where there is poverty, there is wealth
Where the is wealth, there is poverty"

Can you see it ?

John, I doubt very much that Freddie would be easily embarrassed, and I am absolutely dying to know what insconsistencies he has made!

Freddie,
Of course the glass is half empty and half full. By the same token the glasses of Zimbabwe, Congo, Sudan and Myanmar are also half empty and half full.

Sure, adversity is challenge, disasters breed opportunity for strength. So war led the United Nations. Starvation and disease gave birth to Medicins san Frontieres. War crimes gave us the World Court at the Hague. But all these noble institutions requires action and recognition that the half full glass is also half empty.

Can we be content that our own glass is half full of glittering opportunities when it is also half empty with the NEP denying equal opportunity to poor Chinese and Indian villages?

Unless of course, you are saying that there should never be racial equality until there arises such a time, if ever, when all races can compete on equal grounds? Therefore, be resourceful and improvise, pay the small price of racial inequality and reap the larger reward of inter-cultural peace and cohesion?

Precisely!

The glass is both half-empty and half-full, and the situation is both good and bad, all at the same time.

The half-empty glass has very much wanting, but at the same time presents boundless opportunities. The half-full glass is provides sustenance for all, but at the same time is inequitably distributed.

And yes, the price to pay for racial inequality, is indeed very small compared with the larger reward of social stability. Most places with substantial multiple ethnic communities end up as a total mess for one side or even both. Malaysia is a shining example that despite some (maybe even significant) inequitability, there is still so much room for opportunity.

I am also dying to know what those inconsistencies are!

The glass is half-full for those who have opportunity and half-empty for those who are robbed of it.

Let me give you examples.

A government official contracts an IT company to supply important computers to his department. On paper, the contract is supposed to be $100,000. But in reality, $50,000 has been swiped under-the-counter by both the official and the IT company. So, only $50,000 worth are computers are supplied, when the taxpayers are paying $100,000.

As a result, somewhere out there, a person in a government hospital gets inadequate treatment and dies.

Is this fair?

Two brilliant friends grow up together. One is a upper middle-class Malay whose father makes a good living importing livestock into the country. The other is a working-class Chinese who helps his father man his hawker stall daily.

The Malay, by virtue of the NEP, gets a scholarship to widen his horizons. The Chinese, of course, gets nothing. It is strange how so many rich Malays get scholarships when they are perfectly capable of stepping aside for the sake of their poorer Malay cousins and non-Malay neighbours.

Is this fair?

When you have inefficiency in the allocation of taxpayers' money, those working in law enforcement and firefighting services are grossly underpaid. As a result, they have to find illicit ways to make a better living.

A fireman refuses to douse the flames sweeping over a burning warehouse, until the owner shows up to pay him a bribe. By the time the frantic owner gets there, the warehouse is already crumbling.

On a Sunday morning, a policeman is slow to respond to a distress call about a house invasion near his area. He decides he can spare a few more minutes collecting a bribe from a passing motorist.

Is this fair?

A Chinese datuk, by virtue of his connections, manages to acquire Permanent Residence for his unskilled Indonesian workers in two weeks. A Malay woman who has married a Scottish doctor from abroad spends two years trying to get a PR for her husband, but to no avail.

Is this fair?

I have seen all of this happening in front of my eyes. And how can all this not be wrong?

You say Malaysia has more opportunities. But more opportunities to do what? To take advantage of loose law and enforcement in order to cheat and shortchange those who cannot defend themselves?

Well, if you want me to highlight your inconsistencies, I will.

Your apparent experiences abroad are not credible. I have many good friends who have travelled, stayed and worked overseas.

Being spat upon in Tokyo is far-fetched. This might happen in South Korea, but not in Japan. Not even the small Pakistani community in Japan dares to spit.

Being roughed up by 'hooligans' in London is plain stereotypical nonsense. If any punch-up did occur, it was the result of a personal argument between you and someone you knew.

And so on and so forth.

You also contradict yourself several times. An example would be this statement:

"One day, when I get tired of gallavanting, I will go to Australia to wind down. When I get bored after a few weeks, I will go back to KL and see what other interesting piece of shit turned up (read that as opportunity)."

For someone who prides himself as being patriotic, I find it amusing that you use such harsh language. Malaysia is nothing to you but a shitty opportunity? So, in other words, if there is zero opportunity to do anything in Malaysia, you would not come back?

Furthermore, for someone who prides himself as being patriotic, I find it surprising that you held Australian and Singaporean PRs.

But honestly, the primary reason why I doubt the veracity of your claims is that you seem to change directions too often.

First, you recommended that Australians should come retire in Malaysia. This is not exactly a very patriotic thing that you are recommending, asking citizens of another country to take advantage of currency exchange loopholes.

Then, you go on to mention that anyone going abroad to take advantage of loopholes are unpatriotic. This is quite odd, especially when you made an unpatriotic suggestion earlier.

In another instance, you say you can't understand why anyone would go to Australia. It's so boring. You praise the opportunities and wonders of Malaysia.

Then, you turn around and admit that you have Australian and Singaporean PRs. This further damages your credibility. Why on earth were you doing with these two PRs if you are so patriotic?

Freddy, you claim me wrong by all counts, yet you say nothing to enlighten us that i am wrong except to say that you own a house which is furnished like most typical Chinese. However, this does not say much to my other comments. Fine that you have a chinese house in appearance, but I was just using that point to illustrate how much weight you seem to put on the idea of patriotism.

At this point of time, All I can see is that you are evading as many points that is thrown at you without actually giving any reason for your comments. Though you give many points on issues that are paradoxical and some points on your own issue, but you have not really acknowledge any points raised by either me or John Ling. Anybody can evade questions and give paradoxical views.

Regardless of that, it seems to me that you are indeed retreating yourself into a corner here. I agree with John Ling, that it seems weird, after all that talk on Patriotism and not migrating that you hold both Australian and Singaporean PR. In fact, I applaud the fact that you are able to hold an Australian PR without migrating since by the new rules, you need to stay 3 out of 5 years in Australia as well have a permanent place of residence within Australia. This is indeed an achievement to be able to hold a PR and live in Malaysia most of the time. You really need to tell us how you do it.

But aside that minor disrepancy, I really found it amusing how you of all people, who consider yourself very patriotic is willing to sit back and say that things as it is is able to say that the glass is both half empty and half full. When one says that it is both, it really indicates a personality of indifference, thus, by calling yourself patriotic and marking yourself indifferent to the country's state, is really a disrepancy. Though you might actually be confuse yourself by what you wrote and thus the problem, any real patriot would actually look at the country and go "Hei, this is what needs improvement, let's get working on it" not, "All is well and good, let us sit back and party". Unless you are willing to change the country, I don't think you can call yourself patriotic. Note, you did not say, what you actually do to consider yourself patriotic, you only gave an example to lobbying for the good of Malaysia is patriotic, not that you did it yourself.

You asked me a question Freddy, you asked me, what do I see when I look at Malaysia? The answer to this is very simple. I see holes that needs filling, potential that needs a teacher, brokenness that needs fixing and finally, I see a bright hope for a new world, one where not only leadership in monetary and technological advancement is certain, but also a place where future leaders can be raised up and sent out to teach other nations of new posibilities. You may think me as an idealist by saying all that, you may say that it is not possible, but if we can start by creating an education system that raises leaders and innovators, this dream of mine will become a reality. And by education, I am talking about both private and public sector education. And a start to that is by doing not only what John Ling say he does, but by getting more influential people, not only Malaysians but also Americans, British, Europeans, Japanese, Chinese and so on, involved in achieving this goal.

*Applause*

Spat upon in Tokyo! Hahahhaahaha!!! Those words jumped straight out of the page at me too, I must admit.

LOL! I don't doubt that our Freddie boy's been around but dare I suggest that "...I got mugged in New-York, punched up in London, spat upon Tokyo..." were but bold literary embellishments for the audience? A bit like how I emptied half a bottle of chilli oil into my char kuay teow one day many naive moons ago :P

Hey, you guys are amzing, I can't wait for the next round.

Hah.. this reminds me of an incident.

I live just across the street from Taylors' College that holds this annual event called "battle of the bands". Their party goes on to past 12am midnight in the middle of a housing estate. So you know that its illegal to disturb peace past midnight. Dad's complain was taken seriously the first year and a petrol car came to clear the place within minutes. But the same thing happened in the 2nd year, but this time, the police did not bother at all!

I was still schooling at that time and if I could, would just set the damn college on fire!

Wow! Looks like I have really stirred up a hornet's nest! Ha Ha Ha! Ok, let's start...

John,

If you have not been to Japan, then you don't have a case.

If you don't believe that foreigners can get roughed up in London, then the poor Brazilian who got shot in the head 5 times was just a tabloid sensation

An interesting piece of shit is the same as f**king good stuff. You can be that old not to know that?

Usage of harsh language has nothing to do with being patriotic. Ask the football hooligans.

Malaysia always had so many opportunites. Don't know what I would feel if there weren't any. Maybe I would create some.

When you get to be as ancient as I am, you too will collect a lot of PR's, visas, and all manner of exotic stamps on your passport.

Taking advantage of favorable exchange rates is about being financially expedient. Nothing to do with being patriotic.

Screwing Australia for freebies is downright cheapskate.

If people who have so much to scream about Malaysia can call themselves patriotic, then people who find Australia boring should have no problem.

More later.....

Sh@dow,

I never really responded to you because I am under the impression that you have already made up your mind. So the only thing I could say was that you are simply wrong.

But since you asked, I will tell you about that Australian PR. Way back in the early eighties, I got a really good job that took me all over the place. Got the see the world at company expense, and I felt on the top of the world. Then the recession hit hard, and I lost my job. At that time, I got really sore at Malaysia, and my view of the politics then, was far far harsher than anything you all have expressed. Yep! Believe it. So, like so many other young men at the time, I applied for PR's in Australia, Canada, US, you name it. Just wanted to get out of the damn place. I was filled with disappointment, then anger, then dispair. I just wanted to lash out at all the was Malaysian. No points for guessing who later got my fantastic old job. Lots of my friends ended up like me - unemployed and angry.

I ended up in S'pore, cos someone offered me a job there. I thought S'pore can only be great and went there with cannons booming and trumpets blaring. Turned out that it was not all that great after all. 2 years into S'pore, my Ozzie PR application got accepted. Wow Wee! This was my ticket to grandsville, man!

Went down under more than a few times for job interviews. Everyone treated me very well there, but there was definitely a glass ceiling, which to my gastly surprise, was (at the time) maybe even worse than Malaysia. You could only get that far, if you were Asian. After some time, reality set in and I had to admit, much to my great disappointment, Oz was not the place for me. I went back to S'pore. I let my Ozzie PR expire naturally. The wife almost killed me for that.

I worked in S'pore a little longer, and then slowly realized that that old adage about the grass always seeming greener on the other side, is really true. I weighed everything, and came to the agonizing conclusion that my chances and circumstances were actually much much better in Malaysia, despite the impediments, which truth be told, was far greater then than it is now. I got into a series of very long lectures from an uncle of mine, ate humble pie, and finally decided to actually try to think outside the box.

I started a business, but I had to forget about the usual markets that a Malaysian would come to expect to have access to. That was (and probably still is) out of reach. So I looked overseas. Since then, I never looked back. Things just went up and up.

As I now near retirement age, I am now able to see things in a much braoder perspective and clearer light. And then all of a sudden, it just dawned on to me....... Almost all of my friends who cursed and screamed way back 20 over years ago, have done very very well too. So what happened?

It took a very long time for this to happen, but all of us, being put at a disadvantage, had to learn to improvise and use our heads. We were actually given commando training, as it were, and we just did not know it then. Now, we find that we are very very very good at whatever it is we do, and we don't need to worry about who is getting which piece of the pie. We bake our own pie, and we bake it big, and we have bakeries all over the world. Depravation had inadvertently trained us into super-efficient business commandos.

I agree with Dr Mahathir when he said just before he retired, that the NEP has created a breed of Malaysian Chinese super-entreprenuers. The NEP was supposed to help the Malays directly, but indirectly, it has probably helped the non-Malays just as much, if not more. So I really wonder. Who has benefitted, who has been deprived by the NEP?

So, who do I owe all that I have achieved to? No matter how I look at it, I must admit that I do owe a great deal to Malaysia, despite all of that which you say, which incidentally, is not untrue. Truth, is indeed stranger than fiction. Now that my bones are creaking, eyesight failing, kneecaps squeeking, and all the rest of it, I have decided to be positive about everything and look for reasons, excuses even, to praise all that have contributed to my life.

Admitedly, anything I say about Australia, will have very very strong emotional elements deeply insinuated therein. Personal events in that lucky country down under has been the source of the depths of my disappointment and the heights of my exhilaration. That is where my fairy tale had its end, but is yet to start. Paradoxical, it certainly is, but that is another story.

Tinkerbell,

Dear me! Have you no appreciation for adornments, accentuations, exaggeration, and embellishments?

How dull would life be, if not for petals of rose upon a woman's hair... a hint of blush on her skin so fair..... painted lips, the color of flame... and twinkling eyes to herald the mating game!

Ok ok ok! So I stretched the truth a little. Actually, the cleaning lady told me off for accidentally going into the wrong rest room, ok?

Yes, I have spoken to a Pakistani friend who is living in Japan. He confirms that he has yet to hear about anyone from his community being spat on. The Pakistanis do have a lot of complaints about racism, but being spat on is not one of them.

I will come clean. I intentionally said certain things just to observe how you would respond. Reverse psychology, if you will.

The fact that you responded so heatedly and extensively only goes to show that you are not who you say you are.

A greatly exposed man nearing retirement age will have a calm and collected air. He would have seen his fair share of battles, and knows enough not to aggressively butt heads with anyone. He would not spend post after post clarifying his credentials. What does he have to prove? ;)

Only young people would feel it is very important to earn other people's approval. An exposed middle-aged man needs none. He says what he needs to say, and lets it stand on its own. He does not need to embellish, exaggerate or write flowery metaphors.

Don't get me started on patriotism, international travels and angst. None of it holds up to scrutiny.

The fact that you actually responded so sharply to personal attacks is mighty suspicious to me. Even more suspicious is your use of the f-word.

Certainly not the mark of a well-travelled and exposed middle-aged man, wouldn't you say?

Yes, I am being deliberately provocative. But if a youngster like me can provoke a middle-aged man into giving sharp extended responses, then I think that's the greatest joke.

Yet, I predict a sharp response to this. Anyone care to place any bets?

Well, I think we've pretty much established that Freddie is a neo-conservative who doesn't want to rock the boat.

Unfortunately, there are more and more activists emerging everyday, eager to rock the boat and make small but significant changes.

But wait, here's something odd.

The PPS blog would not have existed without the vision of a bright and exposed activist. And yet, it is on this very blog that we find a neo-conservative using the freedom of speech championed by activists to tell us not to rock the boat.

This is very odd indeed.

Without activism, this blog would not exist. And yet, he knocks activism through his posts here. A strange Catch-22.

And yes, I predict a sharp response. :)

Ha Ha Ha Ha! By predicting a sharp response, you surely must know that I will certainly not give you one. But I will say something anyway. On that score, you most certainly have gotten it right (Kiasu mah!)

There are always a few ways to look at anything.

On the one hand, this could be seen negatively as a small group of adolescents going on about with their irreverent pissing contest. Which must be true, given the material evidence at hand.

On the other hand, this could also be seen positively as a boost in the arm for a potentially interesting blog site. 70+ responses to a posting, non-stop in a few days is pretty good